Michael Winner

[Paul A J Lewis]

I'd be interested in knowing how you chaps rate Michael Winner as a filmmaker? Do you dismiss his work completely, or are you of the opinion that his career has been, shall we say, uneven?

I really like some of Winner's earlier movies, including LAWMAN, I'LL NEVER FORGET WHAT'S'ISNAME, CHATO'S LAND, SCORPIO, THE STONE KILLER and DEATH WISH. His Westerns were capable without being exemplary, solid movies with a hint of subtext. I'm not sure about the extent to which his body of work could be said to be 'coherent': are there any themes that run throughout his career? (I suppose there may be some: people obsessed with 'payback'--whatever form it takes; and masculinity under pressure.)

He was also a competent director of action movies, as any viewer of THE MECHANIC will attest: this is a pretty solid movie, and I haven't picked up the DVD yet.

Does anyone have a strong dislike for Winner's movies? Or does anyone have a liking for any specific Winner films? Do you think Winner could be considered to be an 'auteur', or is he simply a hack? Where does Winner's strength as a filmmaker lie?
Cheers,
Paul

[Troy Howarth]

He's a strange filmmaker. At times he seems very capable, even inspired, but much of the time I find his work clunky and forced. Right after the sad, premature demise of Oliver Reed, I tracked down a copy of I'll Never Forget What's'is Name, supposedly one of the seminal British films of the 60s. Despite all the fine actors giving their all, I found it rather obnoxious and, even worse, dull. The Nightcomers is an interesting, if heavy handed, prequel to Turn of the Screw - not a great film, but I found it interesting. I guess I like Death Wish the best, though even it is not unburdened with clunky moments.

[Alex D]

Uneven is the word. However, I do think he gets a bum deal, especially here in the UK- those commercials for Esure didn't do him any favours though (he's now been replaced by a cartoon mouse)...

Seriously, I enjoyed the Death Wish series and The Mechanic was a solid action flick. I think he was good at the level he operated at

[Don Guarisco]

Michael Winner is a filmmaker who intrigues and repels me as a viewer, sometimes doing both at once. He's a gifted craftsman, as ably demonstrated with THE MECHANIC and the first DEATH WISH, but he often seems contemptuous towards the material he works with (a tendency that seems to have set in after DEATH WISH). As a result, his post-DEATH WISH work frequently revels in an extemely perverse sense of bad taste - as seen in THE SENTINEL, DEATH WISH 2 and 3, SCREAM FOR HELP, etc.

That said, I would still like to see his infamous female vigilante epic DIRTY WEEKEND.

[Mark G]

Michael Winner is my favourite BAD director.

Myself and some like minded friends have regular screenings of 3 of his very best/worst.

1. Dirty Weekend - This one reduces us to tears of laughter every time. Plot, acting, music and camera set ups are as bad as it gets. Saw this one at the cinema and is without doubt the funniest film I've seen on the big screen.

2. The Big Sleep - The more you watch it the less sense it makes.

3. Bullseye - Words fail me.

Honourable mentions - Parting Shots, Scream for Help and Death Wish 2+3. All truly painfully hilarious.

One thing that always amazes me is that Winner must have worked with more truly great actors than ANY other director, a fact he never lets you forget with his legendary name dropping.

Desperately waiting for another loser from Winner to go into production. Last I heard, in a radio interview with him, was a planned female serial killer film called Mary Celeste! The mind boggles.

[Troy Howarth]

The original version of The Big Sleep doesn't make any sense, either, and it's also boring as hell, imo. I know it's a revered classic and all that, but I dislike it intensely. While I prefer Bogart to Mitchum, I actually find Winner's version far more entertaining. There are nice roles for the likes of Oliver Reed and others, and it moves at a far better pace.

[Horace Cordier]

I love DEATH WISH - sure it has a couple of clunky moments, but I think Bronson is actually very nuanced in this - the scene where he argues with his son-in-law about how he's tired of moping around is very well-played.

THE MECHANIC is very solid - taut and entertaining. Bit "workmanlike", but still highly effective, and probably the best thing I've seen Jan Michael Vincent do (apologies AIRWOLF fans!). I'm a defender of THE SENTINEL. Having finally seen it on a non-pan and scan dvd, it looks quite good. Loaded with really creepy atmosphere and some neat performances from vets like Burgess Meredith. And Sylvia Miles makes one supremely creepy lesbian. Cool to see a very young Chris Walken and an unrecognizeable John Carradine. This movie actually scared the shit out of me as a kid.

I'd love to see THE STONE KILLER, and I agree that SCREAM FOR HELP is utterly awful (right down to it's wildly innapropriate score by LED ZEPPELIN's John Paul Jones). DEATH WISH 2 is pretty nasty stuff - but while it lacks the subtle touches of the original, it still works very well as an exploitation film.

Thats all the Winner I've seen...

[Max Page]

Originally Posted by Horace Cordier

I'd love to see THE STONE KILLER, and I agree that SCREAM FOR HELP is utterly awful (right down to it's wildly innapropriate score by LED ZEPPELIN's John Paul Jones).

Didn't the lead singer for Yes sang the end credit song?

I thought his Firepower was a fun film, with a good jazz score. I remember he once said OJ didnt commit the murder for "I directed him in Firepower, he is a good friend, and he isn't a good enough actor to lie about not committing the crime"!

Wicked Lady is another train wreck he directed, but some might find the nudity fun.

The Sentinel is a good shocker, well directed by Winner.

You should seek out his earlier films, like Hannibal Brook, The Game, The Nightcomers, The Jokers, I'll Never Forget Whats his name, his collaboration with Oliver Reed is good too. Regrettably most of these were never widely shown outside of the UK

[Fred C. Dobbs]

I always liked The Mechanic. When I was a kid Atlanta Hawks games used to come on WTBS all the time. I think The Mechanic came out at least 5 or 6 times that I can remember. Death Wish 3 is good for laughs. The ultimate Reagan 1980's reactionary film to urban crime. I liked Charles Bronsons bullet-proof vest in it....which stops knives!?

[KH Brown]

While I wouldn't necessarily want to sit through an entire Michael Winner retrospective, I don't think he's as bad a filmmaker as most people seem to make out. His earlier films are certainly competent and have some interesting aspects.

In some ways I think he's gotten a bad rap because he's unashamedly commercial, doesn't take himself too seriously and refuses to play the critics/tastemakers' game - or, perhaps, happily plays the role they've assigned him and laughs all the way to the bank.

Obviously this is a UK perspective more than a US/world one.

[Brett Evans]

Originally Posted by KH Brown

While I wouldn't necessarily want to sit through an entire Michael Winner retrospective, I don't think he's as bad a filmmaker as most people seem to make out. His earlier films are certainly competent and have some interesting aspects.

An older thread but since I've seen quite a few of his films recently I brought back this thread.......

'Uneven' is indeed the word- at times his films come across as pedestrian but then he seems to have some inspired moments. Just saw FIRE POWER which I enjoyed despite it's convoluted plot...........SCORPIO was another film I saw recently which I enjoyed a lot.

I really hope THE STONE KILLER gets a release on DVD sometime in the future as I saw it on TV years ago and remember it being one of Winner's best along with THE MECHANIC.

[Jonathan Douglas]

Would people consider him a hack? Many of his camera settings remind me of Kubrick, but his editing of course is nothing like Kubrick it's all wrong IMHO.

[Graham Smith]

Winner could be accused of giving his actors too much freedom, resulting in some horrible moments of cheesy comedy, even in his best films. Which is why the films he made with Bronson, most notably Death Wish, The Mechanic and Chato's Land benefit from that actor's monosyllabic style.

I don't think he's a talented filmmaker, although a handful of his films which I like are in my collection. Bullseye is without a doubt one of the worst films I've ever sat through. But then again, the guy shot Death Wish so maybe he deserves a free pass.

Previous (British) posters who've mentioned his reputation in the UK have it spot on - he's a bon viveur with a taste for young skirt and a huge appetite who now makes a living as a successful restaurant critic. Quite honestly, I stopped thinking of him as a film-maker a long time ago.

[Mike T]

Damn! This must make me the only person in the world waiting for a DVD release of SCREAM FOR HELP. Bugger...

[Liam Kennedy]

I haven't seen a lot of his work in the last few years, but of what I have seen, I really liked Lawman and The Mechanic.

I also really like Bullseye, does that make me a bad person?

It's been many years since I've seen Dirty Weekend, but I thought it was meant to be a comedy. Funny, but it's no Bullseye